2 Uncool – a furry celebrity’s disgrace is a test of fandom tolerance.
by Patch O'Furr
Remember when Seinfeld was one of the biggest TV shows, and co-star Michael Richards derailed his career with a racist meltdown on stage? It happened at a comedy show, but it wasn’t part of the act. He apologized, and news said “It is actually one of the most honest apologies that a celebrity has ever given for bad behavior.”
It’s rare to see a career implode like that. Now let’s look at a furry happening that’s not so drastic, but more of a slow burn. A prominent performer in the fandom is being examined for poorly representing it, and found unworthy of support by its premiere convention. Bad behavior has been in plain view for years with no apologies. It took this long to accumulate wider attention. Many members say it’s long overdue, and some find it discouraging that it took so long.
“2 The Ranting Gryphon” has a problem.
His George Carlin-styled comedy has earned 24,000 follows on Youtube and audiences of 1000+ at Anthrocon. I’ve seen and laughed at his show there. But they declined to host him this year. His fans are very upset (almost as if he’s a tenured “house comedian of fandom”?) 2 himself appears to be the info source, claiming to be a victim of invalid attacks by over-offended “SJW’s”. There’s only a vague official statement citing declining attendance, so pointing blame is untrustworthy. A con can pick whoever they want, and they just chose not to pick him; friends and fame aren’t supposed to overrule quality or board decisions for approval. (Free speech doesn’t apply because it’s not between citizen and government – the host is a private organization. He isn’t “banned” and can attend the con. )
Whoever made this, I love you. pic.twitter.com/fyjQh49pM8— Buck Est. 1999 (@MintzBuck) March 15, 2017
His issue with the con may not be clear enough for honest discussion. But the deeper problem is. Let’s look at what ‘2’ is defending. Is it just comedy?
In the San Francisco Bay Area, I have enjoyed a bit of fun, casual activity in scenes for comedy and more, from music videos to avant-cabaret variety shows. (Read more: It was so much fun to be in an outrageous Rap CD and a live comedy show!) I went on stage in fursuit at the Tourette’s Without Regrets show (run by the great-grandson of L. Ron Hubbard.) That is to say, I favor broad-minded appreciation for all kinds of weird shit and offensive humor. I like it enough to suppress stage fright and try it as a complete amateur. I’m not in any way professional (and I often speak loudly about loosening boundaries for expression) – but I think I can tell the difference between shock humor or satire, and words that are just indefensible.
Many furries are judging some words from 2 The Ranting Gryphon as indefensible. Read for yourself.
2 on suicide, jews and slavery, and child molesting (wackity schmackity doo!) – in his own words with links for context:
If you feel so much pain that you need to end your life because some other douche bag is calling you bad names then you DESERVE to be dead. No other species on the planet ends their own life because of minor harassment and the fact that we do just means that there’s too damn many of us and nature is trying to find a way to get rid of us. If you’re thrown into agony over little bullshit like this then you are better off killing yourself. Get off the planet and make room for others.”
(Screenshot – original vid. Yet another source that says “kill yourself”. 2 denies telling anyone to kill themself:      )
I do not care that “your people” have been enslaved for the last 3000 years. How often have YOU been a slave? If the answer is “never”, you have no right to bitch… especially at someone who has never OWNED a slave in their life. The fact, if you care to research it, is that everyone… and I mean *everyone* has at some point, stemmed from people who have both been slaves and slave owners. There is no exception to this.
What is sexual molestation? The physical nature of it is obvious, but what what does it represent emotionally to the victim? A loss of control. Helplessness. Perhaps some pain. Being forced to do something you don’t want to. Shame and embarrassment. These are all unpleasant things. But they’re also unpleasant things that most people experience nearly every day from their bosses or co-workers at their jobs or from teachers and other students at school.
What the…? None of that accurately portrays people… and where’s the funny? What’s the purpose for spreading this? I could contact 2 and go through the trouble of diplomatically seeking his side… Nah, I’m busy and I don’t get paid to abate ignorance of the stubborn “see no evil” mindset with his fans. I don’t think there should be benefit of the doubt for saying “you DESERVE to be dead,” or comparing a mean boss at work in the same breath with being molested, or describing molested victims as “grown men turned into blubbering, sobbing children” who should just grow up, or “…child molesters are, in fact, the saviors of their own victims”. If you have to explain this away, you already messed up.
@esperhusky my jaw dropped, where's the comedy? A rant act isnt an excuse for unmitigated shitting on people like a backed up sewer pipe— Dogpatch Press (@DogpatchPress) March 16, 2017
Besides, 2 already stepped up to make a statement. Let him speak for himself:
Here's my official word on this whole thing, which I'm sure will somehow be twisted to hell and back...https://t.co/8WD7b337DM— 2 Gryphon (@2_gryphon) March 15, 2017
Unaccountable 2 the max.
Did you hear him say sorry, or take grown up responsibility for being anything less than innocent? Or use talent to season it with self deprecating humor?
In July, this drama will be over. And I'll still have 25,000 people enjoying my videos. How's that feel, beeatch? https://t.co/a7xpzc1o2U— 2 Gryphon (@2_gryphon) March 15, 2017
All I see is excuses with expectation to get unlimited passes, and deflection at supposed “SJW’s”. A convenient enemy! Hmm, is there anyone besides them who might not support this?
A few years back, when 2 was explaining suicide, a furry friend of mine had her 19 year old brother jump off a building. (There’s a real person I’m not linking for privacy, who might or might not comment.) There was no hint of trouble until she got the news. Nobody had a chance to intervene, and it couldn’t possibly have been more of a surprise. I can’t imagine what it’s like to have someone you love deleted from life like that. I’ll bet it’s super raw and long-lasting. More importantly, reasons don’t change things for people left behind to deal with the loss.
It's not their fault. In order to understand comedy, you have to experience tragedy. Many of them have never had a problem in their life. https://t.co/ENWQOQHwAm— 2 Gryphon (@2_gryphon) March 16, 2017
My friend’s experience showed how devastatingly unexpected suicide can be. As easy as a bad tweet. So when 2 mocks supposed trivial reasons for it, she gets to see him being utterly oblivious. Not just about people who do it, but to her and about all the effects that spread to others. 2’s “logic” hurts and does nothing to help. When people have internal pressure brewing with no outward sign, and depressed people deal with a disease they don’t just get over – that’s not a “choice”. So you don’t go sorting good reasons and bad ones. None are good or simple.
Andreus Wolf has a summary about what 2 said. It is simple and excellent. Click through for the entire thread – it’s the best one:
"Isn't the furry fandom supposed to be tolerant and accepting?"— VƎX IS RUNNING D&D (@vexwerewolf) March 15, 2017
It literally took a guy telling people to kill themselves to upset us.
Some furries didn’t feel like 2 did anything wrong. And even “Nazifurs” from Colorado tweeted their support, grabbing a sleazy opportunity to troll or ride 2’s coattails. That sounds familiar. Remember when Trump was endorsed by David Duke (the KKK guy)? There was also JonTron’s recent racist drama and the Rabid Puppies in Sci Fi fandom. As small-scale as this furry thing is, it shows we can deal with the same stuff as grown up scenes do. We’re having a Moment.
After my friend’s loss, she moved to Colorado where 2 is in the fur community (awkward!) This is about more than just internet words. Community is a good word here. It involves role models, peers, and support (and other words from after-school specials. A furry one would be extra special.)
Support is important with suicide. Particularly for young guys (and LGBT guys). This is very important, because those groups have way higher risk than others. Maybe they’re more stupid and easily upset over little bullshit? Are boys more stupid? Of course not – I’d say they deal with conditions particular to their gender, and deserve self-respect in groups. We do that.
This article isn’t coming from what 2 might call an SJW. Some might even (falsely) use the label anti-SJW. It has to do with gender. Check this out: Why are “nerdy” groups male-populated? Revisiting a debate full of dogma. That’s where I see a group of disproportionately male (and LGBT) members as a good thing brought together by positive motivation like male bonding, not a bad thing made by exclusion and sexism. In that way you can say I’m pro-Men’s Rights. The type where gender roles are just apples-and-oranges and other gender politics can have constructive criticism like this rather than be enemies. The type who thinks society could do more for men who get broken by conditions they don’t ask for, like inner cities emptied of fathers in prison, to war and homelessness. One who finds 2’s words about suicide to be indefensible.
It’s dishonest to deflect blame onto “SJW’s”. That word is silly and the real problem is in the stuff 2 said. The longevity of his act shows how much tolerance there is – now, I think he’s not so much being told what to joke about, as expected to be honest. Furries who choose not to support him are giving reasonable complaints and earning their reputation as a group that cares. They might not understand what it takes for 2 to put his stuff out (they also aren’t unfamiliar with it – it’s hardly secret), but there isn’t a mob wanting persecution without limits. There is room for mistakes and learning. Imagine seeing a gesture of something besides denial and blame for self-benefit.
Until then, I have a feeling that 2’s number is up and this could be a third strike. Even if this goes in one ear and out the other and he keeps looking out for number one, there’s no two ways about it – fans won’t forget and go back to square one.
Kage supports me. He wanted me there this year. And he wanted me to be able to entertain you. But he was outvoted. https://t.co/YtZTvm7JW9— 2 Gryphon (@2_gryphon) March 15, 2017
Anthrocon CEO Uncle Kage defers to the board’s decision, to his credit. He’s also friends with 2 and apparently argued to keep 2’s show. Kage’s feelings about media are famous – and when he’s so strict about letting the press in the con, it makes me puzzled about why he supports his friend who says outrageous, unaccountable stuff? Isn’t that horrible for PR? Why discourage the type of dishonest media from MTV, CSI or Vanity Fair, but let this go?
I guess it’s different because a friend is under control unlike a media company. I can appreciate the sentiment at least. It’s a furry kind of paradox in a group where the line of what’s too much is often up to the individual. Kage and 2 have done nice things together to support charities. Now, support could mean telling a friend when to back away from the mike.
2 can be described as a comedian but he may be more of a ranter..political speaker…flamethrower. George Carlin toward the end got more into rants and could sound bitter at times. Funny? But is it more of a rant than a comedy bit? Fittingly enough, another comic who rants hails from the Pittsburgh area–Dennis Miller. “Now I don’t want to get off on a rant here…” Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys also did some spoken word albums that were political rants (“Die For Oil, Sucker”)
Except that George Carlin and Dennis Miller were actually funny.
Did my own little video about the issue here:
That being said, after I had created the video, 2 had ended up in the hospital for lack of food and sleep. He has stated it had to do with work stress/overworking, but it seems a bit too much of a coincidence. Clearly this situation has had a psychological impact on the guy.
But that just kind of highlights why “people who commit suicide are just dumbasses” principal is not accurate.
Not eating and sleeping is indeed a way to shorten one’s life span. It’s not the same effectiveness as say using a razor or a gun, but it is a method none the less.
If someone fasts to death, that is a form of suicide really. One could say that it wasn’t really voluntery on the part of the party that had harmed themselves through that lack of eat/sleep.
But that’s kind of the point. If one is so stressed/depressed that they effectively can’t eat or sleep and they end up harmed or dead for it, then what is the difference if someone feels compelled to do a more proactive deed such as jumping off a high place, or shooting oneself.
I do feel empathy that they are in such a position where they had done self harm (voluntary or involuntary is irrelevant). But I think it is sort of something that should be noted. None of us are immune to our emotional turmoils, not even those whom are considered chemically/mentally sound by the medical community.
I have a feeling that “lack of food and sleep” is a bit euphemistic… liquid anesthetic can be hard on the body :p Hey I’ve been there.
Oh gosh, this is what I was seeing all over twitter yesterday? It’s so unfortunate to see stuff like this…
The furry fandom is great, but when the umbrella acceptance reaches out so far, sometimes it does a double take and starts hurting itself.
I think 2 deserved what had coming to him, and I hope he can find something more… Suitable for his tastes…
I love how you picked out pieces of each of his statements, when you actually look at the full articles it makes more sense. Typical liberal crap, and if people don’t agree with your views we are all nazis. Pathetic
It’s very dishonest to pretend there’s anything out of context about quoting articles that are carefully labeled “WITH LINKS FOR CONTEXT”. You read that and ignored it. As a practical matter articles need to be quoted. This format isn’t meant for republishing full lengths (that isn’t respectful of copyright either.) I was waiting to see if anyone would be dishonest enough to try what you’re doing.
If you actually look at the full articles, they make the same sense as the quotes, except they dig the hole deeper with repetition. Nowhere in this article is a group compared to Nazis, I even avoided posting 2’s parody of himself dressed that way because I was giving him credit for parody. There’s one mention of Nazifurs that says they’re grabbing an opportunity like they’re coming uninvited (I didn’t even bring up 2’s defense of them). But I’m glad you overreacted like you thought “WE are all Nazis” was the message you received. The “we” says a lot about your allegiances. Please come back when you’re ready to comment honestly.
I like you. You’re openly honest about how little substance there is, and you try to save better than Dominik Hasek and Patrick Roy and Jesus combined. I admire your stretching ability. 🙂 You should teach Yoga! I mean, if you can find it, I’m not sure you are in the actual reality. 🙂
Lol I see you’re getting the same kind of responce I seen on social media….in other words not all good. Yes it is true Anthrocon is a private event and they can pick and choose who they want no matter the reason. But really all the act gets is a free room, and maybe a couple of meals comped. Literally that’s it and I looked into it, but the reaction of “2” on his own Twitter page is like someone took his livelihood away. Really leaves me scratching my head, why such an overblown reaction. We may love our furcons, but we don’t live or die by them, that is common sense.
The fact I never even heard of him before this another matter. Some could argue the most logical point…but I won’t get into that as this is not my site.
But it does leave you wondering.
Wow, you’re getting picked up by Google’s news service, now, patch. Congrats!
I don’t like 2 either, I’ve never thought he was particularly funny, but I can’t join you in calling for dismissing him for political reasons. That’s just needlessly controversial.
Google – neat. I don’t know when that happened!
The controversy has been going on for years, and just boiled over because he personally posted to complain of not getting an Anthrocon stage while blaming political reasons. He raised the issue and pushed for attention. Here I looked at it and covered what people are mad about, and found that they have compelling reasons. Worst of all, 2 is using deflection and denial instead of owning things he literally said. I haven’t called for dismissing him, that already happened, but I don’t dispute the board decision. I did call for people to remember what 2 said and not let it go and that it’s due for something besides denial and blame.
I just wanted to mention that it IS very sensitive for a site manager to criticize someone else of ‘media’ type occupation. So I held back a link asking for money support that is going on other articles. That would be gauche to have here.
Oh, I can absolutely see why he’d want to blame his dismissal on him being censored for making unacceptably offensive statements in the past. He’s in a much better position by being censored for being too offensive than being dismissed for not being funny anymore. To that end, I’m sure he appreciates your support. 😉
Censoring isn’t the right word – they’re not burning books or telling him what to say – they’re turning their backs. He wasn’t even dismissed, he just wasn’t invited. If you don’t get asked to a party it’s not the same as getting fired – see the difference? The way his fans are acting like he got cheated seems like a complacent taking-audience-for-granted thing. That’s why people are asking “where’d the funny go?”
I had to pick words carefully, and intentionally didn’t say unacceptable – I used indefensible – that makes it up to the other guy to justify it. He’s the one making attacks. Seriously, who trash talks child molesting victims for coming out against jerry Sandusky as if they’re being drama queens, then acts like he’s the victim… without a joke in sight… we don’t need to debate if there was anything worth hearing there.
Controversy sells when it supports worthwhile content… yelling “fuck you” makes people tune out. George Carlin used profanity creatively to protest being censored… nobody’s censoring 2, he had a wide platform to say whatever he wants, now it seems like he kept taking tolerance until it’s used up. He can keep putting out videos on Youtube – he has the same opportunity to talk as before, just not from Anthrocon. If it hurts, it probably means he painted himself into a corner and is just trying blame others who got sick of it.
This is definitely not going to help him get the funny back or get more fans than before. Basically, I think it’s worthwhile to cover what people are saying because I think having standards is better than “say nothing and it will go away”. There’s nothing wrong with standards.
I just think you’re making the mistake of playing his game.
He wants it to be about his being dismissed because he was too offensive instead of because he’s a comedian who isn’t funny. The former is an argument about acceptable content, the latter is just discussing his job performance and whether he’s still good enough to be on the big stage (such as it is).
When you argue that his weird and offensive opinions should bar him from being allowed to speak publically (at this privately controlled, non-profit event), then everyone who currently holds an unpopular opinion will see you as a danger to them personally through the standard slippery slope argument. That is the argument that he wants to have, and I can see why he’d want to cast himself in that light.
I say all this from a distance though. It’s been a decade since I cared about furry celebrities or what they thought about things and I can only assume what he thinks, says, or wants.
My point is just to you, the journalist I’ve found through the weirdness that is Google’s interest cards: your argument isn’t as strong as you think it is. You might be right on every point you’re arguing (likely you are, it sounds like he’s been wildly offensive, and with little redeeming entertainment value), but creating a list of “standards” for acceptable content as you’re advocating means giving someone else the power to decide what’s on that list and trusting them not to abuse that power. Good luck building consensus for that! 😉
“When you argue that his weird and offensive opinions should bar him from being allowed to speak publically “ … I never argued that.
“creating a list of “standards” for acceptable content as you’re advocating means giving someone else the power to decide what’s on that list” … I never advocated that.
What the article discusses:
1) People should own things they say and not deny/deflect, honesty is a must.
2) It’s explicitly said that this isn’t about free speech in public. He has been using free speech for a long time with generous tolerance, and nobody’s trying to stop him from speaking. But that doesn’t entitle someone to use AC’s stage for it. He has his own channel, that’s their channel.
People don’t have to host him. That’s AC’s and people’s own personal standard if they don’t want to. There’s no censoring, or “slippery slopes” to danger, or lists of “standards” for free speech in public. That’s some other discussion that isn’t happening here.
Here’s an idea… it’s possible to discuss what he said AND discuss Anthrocon’s supposed reasons for parting ways. But we don’t know the reasons except for a very intentionally vague statement that says “declining attendance” and his untrustworthy claim of something-or-other about nazis. It’s not reliable and board decisions are moot anyways, so it’s pointless. That’s said right in the beginning.
It’s also not the discussion people are wanting or doing. I’m not going to beat around the bush and report guesswork about some private thing behind closed doors. There’s a well-documented years-long discussion of other things right in the open.
It isn’t even about taking offense, it’s about giving justification for why people should host. Again, nobody has to. And many are deciding he’s being indefensible, they don’t want to host any more. There’s nothing wrong with that, that’s not making “lists of content”. People aren’t being “easily offended”, they’re just getting turned off.
Who cares if he wants to deny/deflect towards censoring and “offended SJW’s” and make it about that? If he will do it anyways but it’s dishonest, see 1) above. Talking about what someone actually said isn’t playing their game.
With all that out of the way, talking about content and standards is something reasonable grown ups do. Having no standard is worse than having as basic a standard as possible. If one his fans want to argue that the “child molesters” piece (for example) is good for their own personal standard, then let ‘em… it will let everyone know who to avoid. Nobody is jumping on the guy to crush his fragile rights with that… It’s been years of extreme tolerance until complaints have built up so far as declining to host on AC’s stage. If nothing else, let’s not be hypocritical when there’s policies against MTV/CSI etc for much less negative portrayals.
If that stuff isn’t clear, please read the article again and pay extra attention to the summary from Andreus Wolf here: https://twitter.com/andreuswolf/status/842154419345055744
By the by, for anyone who works in the entertainment business, issues like what happened to 2 is really miniscule. Performers can go weeks on end without gigs, and with furry being as granular as it is there’s only so many conventions to perform at. The fact that anthrocon picked him up as a regular performer for as long as they did would be considered a bonus for many performers, but like all great acts, venues and performers part ways all the time (for anyone who attended Too Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind at MFF, they were a professional troupe actively going through the same experience). They were eloquent about it. They cited creative differences and opportunities going forward but they certainly didn’t take a shit on their venue. This whole thing just denotes a lack of professionalism that is present in the fandom among artists that take money for commission’s and disappear, and fursuit makers who take money for commission’s only to finish suits 4 years later.
I completely agree, except “no comment” about fandom in general tolerating unprofessional artists. (Or maybe say that’s kinda part of a peer to peer model, better platforms would firm things up. Village vs. City concept.)
So now 2 is doing “Dear Anthrocon” vids with melodramatic tears about his feelings. Holy projection about oversensitive SJW’s!
Him and the followers goaded to stir the pot pushed for ‘the real reason’ and demanded AC to stop ‘lying’.
Imagine a person being let go (not fired) from a job and the former boss diplomatically withholding talk about not getting along to help the worker save face. Then the worker makes a big stink about the boss ‘lying’ but stays puzzled about why their reputation stays poor.
Lack of professionalism for sure. We in the peanut gallery wouldn’t be talking if that was being handled well.
That’s certainly an interesting topic, seeing the mixed reactions to either side as well. One side will call you racist while the other will call them idiots, the mud slinging has taken it’s own toll on he furry community, but not as big as I can see (As I only saw that this offense happened through facebook, then this article). Some of the tweets shown in this article can be returned quite literally with historical evidence. Him saying he has what, 23, 24,000 people watching him still shows one, he’s only in it for the views possibly also to stir a fuss, but also he’s doing something similar to what used to happen in political/economic/domestic issues. As an example, an extreme example, but he easiest ones to use: the KKK, and Nazis had thousands, maybe millions of supporters at one point, doesn’t make what they did any good though. Not only that, I presume this “2” has not experienced panic attacks, suicides, depression, or anything in that nature, which makes it easy to say it’s a choice. Yeah, I used to think the same way, it was a choice, but now it’s different since I’m in one right now. Berating someone on the verge of death, forcing, or should I better clarify as, convincing them that this world, mainly the person berating them is no longer worth the trouble of living for. Yes, one less life means more resources for the rest of us, but it also makes you a killer for forcing them down that path. Suicide is not something to take lightly, if you had nothing to live for, what would you do, screw the world to save yourself, say f-it and opt out, or stick around in what’s left of a mess that you can’t clean up, drowning in the unanswered questions and self blame? I don’t want to start anything, and I already know someone’s going to call me a Liberal or something along that nature, in which case, it means nothing to me, as I don’t pay attention to “liberal” policies and other things of hat nature, politics to be more precise. This would be much easier to write if I were on a computer…but it’s all here now, so I’ll continue. The baseline of what all that jumbled rambling is: Comedy is not a front from which you can harmlessly shell others for what they believe in, or are afflicted by. They’ve dealt with some shite in their lives, and so have you, have the decency to keep those jokes to your inner circles, not publicized in a convention where thousands can here your political, economical, religious, and/or social views.
I’d stay with the Klan analogy alone, friend, because that’s really the most relevant one. If you think of how it worked in the second Klan era, it wasn’t one monolithic group like before, but newspaper columnists, authors, religious speakers, and radio hosts, all bringing their respective “flock” or “fanbase” together for one unified goal, which is why when they lost the civil rights battle, they tore themselves apart with infighting. That was legitimately the “glue” holding the entire 4 million plus coalition together.
So to, with the whole “anti Social Justice” youtube phenomenon, most of them hate one another more than SJs, really (just look at Ralph Retort vs Lily Feng and her eventual suicide), it’s just that they’re bonding over a “common foe”
After the Presidential election, 2 proceeded to dismiss the side that lost as the “diapered generation” who threw “crybaby tantrums”:
While furries come from all walks of life, there are many of us who have political leanings left of center and this surely did not sit well with them. And where was the humor in those tweets? Where was the comedy? Those tweets could only serve to promote negative feelings. 2 had nothing to gain and everything to lose by making them.
Then we get to the current drama storm, which was seemingly staged by 2:
Even today, 2 continues to tweet about it, instead of moving on.
I guess tantrums are okay when he throws them.
I was even steering clear of making this too much about left/right (not just liberal people have suicide, it’s just as much a poor red state issue) – or getting into unsubstantiated (but really absurd) stuff about the staging… but yeah, it seems like there’s no bottom to the negativity.
The Left/Right thing just becomes convenient scapegoat when he really just can’t see he has been acting like a dick.
I have always had misgivings about the person, and I am not alone. The cold-hearted “kick em in the head” approach to “comedy” doesn’t do anything for me except make me sad. And I’m sad enough at the horrible behavior of my “fellow” humans as it is, already.
I loved his stuff early on but at some point around 2003ish It just stopped being funny to me.
When you go around saying dickish things it will eventually come back and bite you. This is how you lose a good potion your audience.
I guess he finally pissed off enough people with those dickish statements.
I guess these days you can escape responsibility by blaming SJW’s.
Never mind that one of the people on the board has had a hate boner for 2 for years even before his “Suicide” Video? And how this same “Pillar” of the furry community conveniently forgot they themselves got so damn boozed they forced themselves on a ex friend? Naw “someone who said things I don’t like got booted so it’s fine, not like that will go to the obvious place it goes to every dang time someone does crap like this. It’ll never hit me”
Yes never mind this really sad attempt to deflect attention from the topic. Must be someone else’s fault that 2 Gryphon spent years of saying the things he said that had no punchline anywhere in sight, and now refuses to take responsibility.
I’m reminded of this passage from the Phantom Tollbooth:
The waiters reappeared immediately, carrying heavy, hot trays, which they set on the table. Each one contained the exact words spoken by the various guests, and they all began eating immediately with great gusto.
“Dig in,” said the king, poking Milo with his elbow and looking disapprovingly at his plate. “I can’t say that I think much of your choice.”
“I didn’t know that I was going to have to eat my words,” objected Milo.
“Of course, of course, everyone here does,” the king grunted. “You should have made a tastier speech.”
Let’s get one thing perfectly straight: 2 is an asshole. There has never been a time when he has *not* been an asshole. When he was born, the doctor slapped him on the butt and said “Congratulations, its an asshole.”
Now, he has turned some of his assholery into legitimate comedy. I have damn near laughed myself incontinent at some of his shows. He is legitimately funny. He is also an asshole.
The problem is not that he is being an asshole, but that he has started being an asshole about things we would rather he not be an asshole about. Screaming rant about ducks in the park? Sure, fine, whatever, we laugh. Screaming rant about jews with chainsaws? Yeah, that’s a bit much.
I’m not apologizing for him, but I think the problem is that he is so used to working with the filter off, he forgets that people can get offended. And being an asshole, he resents that people are offended.
I guess what I am saying is, we really shouldn’t be surprised that the asshole has started being offensive. It is what he does best. It is in his nature. If he shows contrition, and dials it back a notch, we may forgive him. But he will still be an asshole.
ECHO! Echo. echo… so this it what a circle jerk looks like.
In my eyes 2 practices a kind of comedy where there were no “sacred cows”…
he is an old gay furry that grew up in the south and lived during a time that did not cater to him and his lifestyle, unlike the social climate we have today. He likely caught far more shit for it than you will ever have in your life time. he saw plenty of his friends die in the AIDS epidemic.
2 likely became very close bedfellows with subjects like suicide, rape, death and bigotry. and had to toss away some if those “Delicate Sensibilitys” that a more modern audience would still cling to.
you are not wrong in saying that 2’s comedy is off color. but his material may simply come from a time when laughing at your own pain was the only way to survive.
in a word, these are older harsher jokes falling on a younger generations ears.
you do not find it funny because the context has never been applied to you in such a way.
Yet another version of “some of my friends are black.”
He isn’t telling personal anecdotes and there’s no self deprecation. He’s directly attacking what he considers to be weaklings for doing things like showing anguish at being raped by Jerry Sandusky. Without “jokes”.
Many of his critics are people his age or older who were in fandom before he was. By comparison he’s a latecomer who overstayed his welcome. There are staffers from ConFurence 0 posting here. Don’t play that “kids don’t get it” pose.
You’re showing what disingenuous defense of the indefensible looks like.
Well, you know. Edgelords gotta edge.
Look i can understand both sides of the story here and yes some of the things he said weren’t exactly defensible however at the same time certain points that he is trying to make get lost in the rage that pops up because someones feelings got hurt. especially the Suicide rant which was about people that could of legitimately got help and chose not to and therefore killed themselves. hell i have been through some pretty tough bullying in my life. I’ve been beaten up, tormented told no one will ever love me which at the time was pretty painful considering the state of my life . but i surely didn’t go kill myself because I decided that those people are always going to be mean and or vindictive and i’m not going to let their problems kill me, and i’m not letting my problems kill me either. My point being that people might miss 2’s point because of the external rage that people put on anyone that puts a foot wrong now. Also there is a bit of a problem with the convention all but banning him in that when asked for an explanation as to why he was banned they blatantly lied about the real reason they were doing it. declining numbers mean you move them to a smaller stage, time restriction mean you cancel the event that he is suddenly not participating in. yes 2 screwed up and maybe he screwed up a lot but Anthrocon screwed up in their excuse. also on a side note i heard the attendance at anthrocon went down or at the least didn’t grow much this year. which seems like a coincidence (i’m not saying that the correlation equals the causation but keep it in mind just in case).
1) 2 rants to provoke, flipping that on others for having “rage” isn’t honest.
2) There’s nothing helpful in crapping on people who “chose” suicide, that’s ignorance about the disease that causes it.
3) Justify, justify, blah blah it’s indefensible. Plus if it was the slightest bit “comedy” there would be a joke somewhere
4) 2 wasn’t banned
5) Declining to host a show and not explaining is like having a boss lay you off without a bad reference. They didn’t owe explanation.
6) Flipping it on them for “lying” is so unprofessional that it supports the good decision.
7) Attendance rose.
Please re read what I actually said as there are at least 2 statement’s you have just made 1 of them in number 4 which was that i never stated he was banned i said he was all but banned. As in they did as much as they could do as a convention to keep him away and generally make him feel unwelcome, Which you might think is justified but it still proves that you incorrectly read what I said. the other is in 7 as i said I heard it went down of didn’t grow much. and looking at the stats its the lowest increase since 2005 at 3.33% and looking at the last three years of increases you can see that in 2016 it had a 14.44% increase in 2015 it was 9.01% and in 2014 it was 5.09%. also the way you see some things they might be indefensible to you however you must understand that it is YOUR opinion and I was not flipping it on them I was saying that whether or not you agree with the decision it is bad form to lie about why you made the decision hence my problem with them. For example someone could be banned from the con because of something they did but if they lie about the reason that the person was banned then it’s bad form I’m not putting everything in the same box as it seems to me that is what you are doing to my comment.
That’s word games. Anthrocon grew, period. 2 simply wasn’t banned and he can go like anyone else. They just didn’t invite him for a performing platform. It’s not his con and he isn’t entitled to a platform. In the actual working comedy world, they call it a gig. It doesn’t matter if he was there for one year or 20. It’s a gig. When it ends you go look for another one or apply later with something new. It is not bad form for them to say the gig is done, or even give a diplomatic reason besides “fired for cause”. It’s bad form to complain about it.
Here’s the thing about opinions. Yes it’s my opinion. That’s also your opinion. But Anthrocon had an opinion and it’s their con. I can’t go to your house and complain if you don’t want me staying there. Same deal here.
the reason I replied is because of what you implied I had said. had you of showed that you had read my comment properly and then disagreed with me I could of just left it but you did not show that. Instead you went off trying to tell me what I have said is wrong and here are 7 reasons why I am wrong 2 of which were based on a misinterpretation of what I said or what you didn’t bother to read. we will obviously never agree on what we think is right or wrong in what happened but that does not mean I will let you just lie about what I said, whether through misinterpretation not reading my comment fully or blatantly lying I don’t much care which it is. All i ask is that you redact the parts that I have shown you did not reply to correctly.
the use of ambiguous language to conceal the truth or to avoid committing oneself; prevarication.
You: “…when asked for an explanation as to why he was banned…”
Then: “…i never stated he was banned…”
You: “…on a side note i heard the attendance at anthrocon went down…”
Then: “…looking at the stats its the lowest increase…”
Please work on improving your communication and grammar. (A few paragraph breaks would do wonders.)
ok I’ll admit after looking over my first one I did say the first part and should of said why he was all but banned, but the second part was taken at two different times. I went and looked at the stats after you said that attendance had increased. saying I heard that the attendance was down was me using a qualifier as at the time of writing I didn’t have the stats in front of me but had been told that it had by someone that was present at the con. still you did misrepresent some of what I had said which is my problem. i’m glad that you haven’t taken to using quotes out of context though.
Wow… I had no idea 2 was altfurry. I never did like his ‘humor’ anyway.
This guy is still a thing? I thought that went out of style years ago with Jeff Dunham and others. Gosh. What a self-centered dork.
I apologize if I’m beating a dead horse here, but geez, I’ve never heard of this guy until I’ve read this now, and I’m glad I haven’t met him. He sounds like a total feculence, he’s got an ego the size of Tokyo Tower. I mean, that insensitive suicide comment and the fact he’s also an intolerant, bigoted Anti-Semitic prick (I happen to have a brother who is going to convert to said thing 2 is intolerant towards ignites anger in me). His ego is going to bring him down and ruin him one day, mark my words, he’s gone the same way as Doug Walker.
And George Carlin could have kicked his bird lion butt any day.
Thanks for reading and spot on. If you hadn’t heard of him, it’s because he’s totally washed up already.
thanks for summarizing the debacle, I found this helpful!